How Many Beetles Can You Get On The Head Of A Match

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georgedingwall
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How Many Beetles Can You Get On The Head Of A Match

Post by georgedingwall »

Hi there,

This image of a Devil's Coach Horse Beetle ( I think), was taken using 2 sets of extension tubes, a 2 x tele-extender and a 105 mm macro lens attached to a Nikon D200.

The bettle was about 10mm long.

The assembly was mounted in an engineers adjustable cross vice, as used by another member of this forum, whose name escapes me at the moment. The mount isn't totally stable yet, it was balanced on a cardboard box, so there is probably some vibration in the image. Still it's not a bad first attempt with this sort of mount. I'm sure I'll do better when I make a proper support for the vice and camera assembly.

The orange blob bottom left is part of the head of a match.

Image

Nikon D200 with 105 mm Nikon Macro Lens
2 X tele-extender + 2 sets of extension tubes
1/250 sec @ F32 lit by 3 flash heads on full power.
Mirror Up Shooting Mode.
A stack of 7 frames using Helicon Focus.
Last edited by georgedingwall on Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
George Dingwall

Invergordon, Scotland

http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/

rjlittlefield
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Re: How Many Beetles Can You Get On The Head Of A Match

Post by rjlittlefield »

georgedingwall wrote:The assembly was mounted in an engineers adjustable cross vice, as used by another member of this forum, whose name escapes me at the moment.
"Engineer's cross vice", eh? That sounds like my rig! (See here for stacking, and here for a non-stacking use.)

I'm glad to see somebody else getting some use out of that idea. I tried it just because I happened to have one sitting around bolted to a drill press, but I've gotten pretty fond of the device.

George, the biggest softening in your image is almost certainly due to diffraction because of the small f/stop. You're working at what, around 3X onto the sensor, so an 8x12 print would be around 30X? At that magnification, to get a really sharp print, theory says that you would need to stop down to only around f/6.8 (calculated as 220/(30+3), see this posting). At f/32, I'll wager you're not getting much more detail than is shown in the reduced image you posted.

However, theory doesn't know that your lens probably is sharper at f/11 than at f/6.8, due to various aberrations. If you're into experimenting, I'd suggest repeating this stack at a wider f/stop and see if you get enough extra sharpness to compensate for having to use more frames. When I did that, I got the results that are summarized at http://www.janrik.net/insects/ExtendedD ... deoff.html.

Bottom line is that when I'm stacking with a Sigma 105mm at 1:1, I use f/11, occasionally f/8 if I'm being especially picky.

--Rik

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georgedingwall
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Re: How Many Beetles Can You Get On The Head Of A Match

Post by georgedingwall »

rjlittlefield wrote:
georgedingwall wrote:The assembly was mounted in an engineers adjustable cross vice, as used by another member of this forum, whose name escapes me at the moment.
"Engineer's cross vice", eh? That sounds like my rig!
--Rik
Hi Rik,

Thanks for the info. I'm sure it is similar to the rig you have use. I used the vice from my Drill Press which allows adjustment in 2 directions. - side to side and towards and away from the subject.

I'm sure your right about the aperture size. No matter how careful I was in focussing, I could not get an image which looked any where near as sharp as it looked in the viewfinder.

I'll try the subject again with a different aperture an see if I get a sharper image out of it.

The one thing I will say about the adjustable vice rig, is that it is a lot easier to get a precise adjustment of the focus position than moving the focus ring on the lens. I'm sure that when I build a solid base for the vice, I'll be able to get some decent images using it.

Once again, Rik, thanks for the very helpful info you have provided.

Bye for now.
George Dingwall

Invergordon, Scotland

http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/

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georgedingwall
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Post by georgedingwall »

Hi there,

Here is a reworked image based on the advice from Rik about using a larger aperture to improve sharpness. This time I used F11. All other parameters remain the same as the original image, except I used 11 frames this time due to the smaller depth of field of each frame caused by the larger aperture.

Unfortunately I broke off one of the Beetles antennae re-doing the setup.

It's not perfect yet, but there is a definite improvement in this image.

Many thanks to Rik for his suggestions on aperture.

Image

Bye for now.
Last edited by georgedingwall on Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
George Dingwall

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http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

George, this is coming along quite nicely. Now, on to the next issue...

There is some white haloing around the mouthparts that reminds me of some difficulties that I had early on. After much thrashing around, I discovered that my images did not have perfectly uniform illumination from frame to frame. If that's the case for you too, then there are a couple of approaches that you might go about addressing it.

The first approach is to switch away from flash, using instead continuous illumination. An ideal light source would be something like a DC regulated fiber illuminator, but since I don't have one of those hanging around, I usually just use some "open" illumination setup with floodlamps like shown in one of the links I gave earlier. This will require a very long exposure compared to flash, so be sure to get your setup stable as a rock. My Canon 300D tolerates long exposures very well, so I don't worry until exposure times get over a second. I have heard that other cameras don't like long exposures so well (due to noise accumulation), and I don't know anything about your Nikon in this regard. Notice that it would be a mistake to use something like AC-powered illumination combined with a fast shutter speed because ordinary light bulbs actually flicker quite a bit at 2X (occasionally 1X) the frequency of the power lines.

The second approach would be software correction of the exposure from frame to frame. I know that CombineZ5 has this. Helicon Focus, I'm not sure. It did not used to, but I quit looking after I figured out how to keep the illumination constant.

Hope this helps too!

--Rik

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MikeBinOKlahoma
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Post by MikeBinOKlahoma »

Very interesting shot, and look like Rik was right-on about the diffraction problem. I'd not expect much vibration at 1/250th second!

I'm going to have to try something like this with my MP-E-65. If I'm going to have it ready when the weather is warm, I'll ahve to start now, though.

Do I understand that the bug was deceased when you took the shot? Sounds like it'd be difficult to get him to hold steady between images otherwise.
Mike Broderick
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Ken Ramos
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Post by Ken Ramos »

Well what can I say guys? A very "striking" image there George! :o

Striking... match...get it?...oh well. :lol: :oops:
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rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

MikeBinOKlahoma wrote:Do I understand that the bug was deceased when you took the shot? Sounds like it'd be difficult to get him to hold steady between images otherwise.
Stacking live bugs is a challenge, but once in a while you get lucky.

When I wrote the article at http://www.janrik.net/insects/ExtendedD ... summer.htm, I made it a point to use live material for everything except the butterfly eye in Figure 5. The moth in Figures 1 and 2 was very much alive and able to fly, but its species survives by camouflage and has this habit of staying stock still during daytime. I was developing some technique at the time, and I ended up keeping that poor little fellow immobilized for over 2 days by shining a photoflood on it. Talk about your bare-bulb Inquisitioners!

More seriously, I just remembered that this is another advantage of continuous illumination. Flash tends to make critters move, even if they would otherwise stay still.

--Rik

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georgedingwall
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Post by georgedingwall »

MikeBinOKlahoma wrote:Very interesting shot, and look like Rik was right-on about the diffraction problem. I'd not expect much vibration at 1/250th second!

Do I understand that the bug was deceased when you took the shot? Sounds like it'd be difficult to get him to hold steady between images otherwise.
Hi Mike,

The reason I thought there might be some vibration, is that the camera and vice assembly was balanced on top of a cardboard box, and the slightest move by me, or by my dogs running around the house, was showing up in the view finder. I intend to make a stiff base for it shortly, and that should minimise any vibration.

You understand correctly. The beetle was dead for these images and stuck to the match stick with a small blob of super glue. I use a killing jar which contains a small piece of rag soaked in acetone to collect specimens.

Bye for now.
George Dingwall

Invergordon, Scotland

http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

rjlittlefield wrote:The second approach would be software correction of the exposure from frame to frame. I know that CombineZ5 has this. Helicon Focus, I'm not sure.
It looks like the current version of Helicon Focus does know how to do exposure adjustment. It's controlled with a Brightness checkbox in the Option | Autoadjustment dialog.

--Rik

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georgedingwall
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Re-worked Image

Post by georgedingwall »

rjlittlefield wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:The second approach would be software correction of the exposure from frame to frame. I know that CombineZ5 has this. Helicon Focus, I'm not sure.
It looks like the current version of Helicon Focus does know how to do exposure adjustment. It's controlled with a Brightness checkbox in the Option | Autoadjustment dialog.

--Rik
Hi Rik,

I had a closer look at the frames in the stack, and found one frame was significantly brighter that the rest. I corrected this and ran the stack again, and the halos you mention are now vitually gone. The mottled effect on the background has also gone to be replaced with a smooth colour.

Here's the final reworked image based on your advice. It definitely looks much better, even in the full size image.

Image

I tried altering the brightness option setting in Helicon, but all that happened is the the finished stack was a blue filled frame.

I also ran the stack in CombineCZ and that seemed to do a better job around the mouth parts where the halo was, but there were significant parts of the bottom and left edges of the finished stack that were way out of focus requiring significant cropping.

I've noticed this effect with CZ on other stacks. It's tends always to be the left and bottom edges. Have you any idea how to fix this. I would like to use CZ more, as it seems to do a better stack in some cases than Helicon.

Here's a link to a comarrison between Helicon and CZ for a stack of an electric screwdriver chuck and bit.

http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/pages/DofFtest.html

The bottom 2 images show the final stack from the 2 programs. You can clearly see in the CZ stack, that the bottom left corner is out of focus or un-processed in some way. If I could correct this I would use the CZ program more. If you have any ideas on how to correct this, I would be very grateful.

Thanks for you excellent help on this issue.

Bye for now.
Last edited by georgedingwall on Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
George Dingwall

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rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

George,

This latest image looks very good! And I must say, your DofFtest.html file may be the prettiest problem report that I have ever seen. It's nice to watch an artist at work. :D

Your problem with CombineZ5 is probably fixable by adjusting a noise threshold. If you Macro | Edit Macros and select Do Stack, you'll get a Macro Editor dialog that shows about 17 individual steps. Around step 4 is "Find Detail(25)". (These numbers may change from release to release.) Highlight that line and push the Edit button. Near the bottom of the dialog, in a box labeled Parameters, change the "25" to a "5" or some such. Then push the Update button, and the line in the list will change to match. Push the OK button to dismiss the dialog. Then re-run your stack using Do Stack, and see what happens.

Some explanation will help understand what's going on here. Helicon Focus and CombineZ5 use very different algorithms.

After registering the images, both of them evaluate around every pixel in every frame to get some "sharpness" number that reflects how crisply that part of that frame appears to be focused.

After that, the algorithms are completely different.

Helicon Focus (HF) proceeds to weight every frame by some nonlinear function of sharpness, independent of stacking order. What appears in the composite result at each pixel position is a combination of pixel values that heavily weights the sharpest frame(s), regardless of how fuzzy that frame (or frames) might be.

CombineZ5 (CZ5), on the other hand, decides at each pixel position which single frame is the sharpest and assigns that frame number as that pixel's "depth". However, if all frames are below the Find Detail threshold of sharpness at a pixel position, then that pixel position initially gets assigned a depth of "can't tell". CZ5 then fills in all of the "can't tell" positions by interpolating the smoothest surface it can that still fits all of the depths that could be determined. The final filled-in depth map is used to select the source frame at each pixel position, interpolating between pixel values for depths that are not integer frame numbers.

In your case, I believe what's happening is that the entire left background is sufficiently out of focus that it's falling below the Find Detail threshold. The initial depth map has that whole area as "can't tell", and the interpolation process fills in from the nearest pixels whose depth can be determined, many of which are from the point of the screwdriver bit. By reducing the Find Detail threshold, you allow CombineZ5 to determine the depth even in that somewhat fuzzy region.

Understanding the different algorithms often helps to clear up why HF or CZ5 works better in specific circumstances. The big win of the CZ5 algorithm is that it has a lot less problem with haloing against fuzzy backgrounds, if you tune the Find Detail threshold so that halos fall below the threshold. But the CZ5 depth map algorithm fails badly when the subject does not have an obvious surface, say because it's a loose mat of fibers or a bunch of individual bacteria distributed as a 3D cloud. In those cases, CZ5 tends to produce a characteristic "swirly" effect as the single-valued depth map does its best to slew from one depth to another. Wrong model, wrong result.

By the way, in the interest of full disclosure, I should tell you how I know this stuff. With CombineZ5, I had the great fortune to collaborate with its author Alan Hadley in developing the depth map algorithm. For Helicon Focus, all I know is what I can tell from experimentation and comparison with my own earlier work. If you get results that suggest something different is going on, please let me know. Both authors have used some of my stacks as tests and drivers for their software development.

Hope this is helpful,
--Rik

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georgedingwall
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Post by georgedingwall »

Hi Rik,

That's a very interesting reply. It's useful to know a little of how these programs work. I feel I'm beginning to get the hang of it with both of Helicon Focus and CombineZ.

I'll try your suggestions on editing the macro and see if there is any improvment.

Many thanks for all of your efforts in helping me with the Beetle image.

Bye for now.
George Dingwall

Invergordon, Scotland

http://www.georgedingwall.co.uk/

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